HADES - JOSEPHUS

ACTS 2.27 27Because you will not leave my soul in Hades, Neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay. oti ouk egkataleiyeiV thn yuchn (psueche-soul) mou eiV adhn(hades) oude dwseiV ton osion sou idein diafqoran oti ouk egkataleiyeiV thn yuchn mou eiV adhn oude dwseiV ton osion sou idein diafqoran THE APOSTLE PETER CLAIMS.... "The soul" of Jesus ("my Holy One") was "in Hades"   The body of Jesus was in Joseph's tomb and would  have suffered decay except for His resurrection. THE APOSTLE PAUL'S MENTIONING HIS NON-PHYSICAL BODY TO PARADISE   (2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 both use it.),        2 Corinthians 12:4; 2 I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I don`t know, or whether out of the body, I don`t know; God knows), such a one caught up into the third heaven. 3 I know such a man (whether in the body, or apart from the body, I don`t know; God knows), 4 how he was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Peter's explains his  Psalm 16 claims...          ACTS2"29-36 "Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that  he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. he foreseeing this  spoke (in Psalm 16) about the resurrection of the Christ, that  neither was his soul left in Hades, nor did his flesh see decay. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him  that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to  sit on his throne, This Jesus God raised up, whereof we all are witness es. Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the  Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured forth this, which you now  see and hear. For David didn`t ascend into the heavens, and his body,  but he says himself,  `The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit by my right hand, Until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet."` "Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has  made him both  Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." VERSES 29-30  Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him  that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to  sit on his throne, This Jesus God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS.... WHAT ARE THEY WITNESSES OF? THEY  WERE WITNESSES OF CHRIST'S RESURRECTED PHYSICAL  BODY!  What Peter argues here is not the existence of our soul--THAT  WAS ALREADY KNOWN--A PART, OF THIER THEOLOGY--already a known; a part of their belief, but WHAT PETER IS ARGUING AND   WHAT HE IS PROVING ISM THAT WHICH THEY SAW--WITNESSED IS THE PHYSICAL RESURRECTED BODY OF JESUS CHRIST--THE  HOLY ONE WILL NOT SEE DECAY-ROT.  The body of Christ will be  resurrection--"not see corruption." Peter interprets Psalm 16, and restates what  David clearly understood would  happen to  himself (David)-that is his body in the natural cycle of death--his body would go the grave and his  and see corruption(rot), and his soul going to Hades("Abraham's bosum"-"Paradice" part  of Hades).  Peter's proof-text was " In other words, David's corupted bones are still is in  David's Tomb--David's tomb is still there--check it out. David, both died and was buried, and  his tomb(bones of his body) is with us  to this day. 2:31 he(David) foreseeing this spoke about  the resurrection of the Christ, that (Christ) neither was his soul left in Hades,  nor did his flesh see decay. Peter inadvertently mentions "soul".  The Greek word used  is the same Greek word used in Septuagint's Genesis 2:7  and as obviously contextually while  speaking of Jesus. That is Jesus' soul,  non-physical non-decaying part of  Jesus, which means Jesus was not to left  in Hades,  so obviously that's where He  was.  Jesus explains Hades in  Luke 16:23, Matt. 11:23, Luke 10:15 Jesus' flesh (the Greek word for flesh(sarx) can not mean spiritual body), but His fleshly body with  the wounds of crucifixtion would have suffered  decay save His resurrection and 40 days later  ascendency) This sarx-flesh meaning became an important point  much later in the Christian Church Council debate  over a supposedly Christian teaching that was really  a Plato-inspired belief that Jesus' body was never  physical (soma), but only a spiritual body   see John 1:14   JOSEPHUS WHO WAS A NON-CHRISTIAN  JEWISH GENERAL IN 67-70AD ROMAN-JEWISH  WAR.  HE WAS THE MAJOR JEWISH HISTORIAN, JEWISH TEACHER OF JEWISH RABIES  AN EXTRACT OUT OF JOSEPHUS'S DISCOURSE TO THE GREEKS  CONCERNING HADES. "1. Now as to Hades, where in the souls of the righteous and the  unrighteous are detained, it is necessary to speak of it. Hades is a  place in the world not regularly finished; a subterranean region,  where the light of the world does not shine; from which circumstances,  that in this place the light does not shine, it cannot be but there must  be perpetual darkness. This region is allowed as a place of custody  for souls, in which the Angels are appointed as guardians to them, who  distribute to them temporary punishments agreeable to everyone's  behavior and manners. 2. In this region, there is a certain place set apart, as a lake of  unquenchable fire, wherein we suppose no one has hitherto been  cast; but it is prepared for a day at fore-determined by God, in  which one righteous sentence show deservedly be passed upon all men;  when the unjust and those that have been a disobedient to God...  shall be adjudged to this everlasting punishment... I'll adjust shall  obtain an incorruptible and never ending kingdom. These are now indeed confined in Hades, but not in this same place  where in the unjust are confined. 4. But as to the unjust, they are dragged by the force to the left hand,  by the Angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with the  goodwill, but as prisoners driven by violence; to whom there are sent  the Angels appointed over them to reproach them and to threaten  them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them still downward.  Now as those Angels that are set over these souls, dragged them into  the neighborhood of hell itself... They have the nearer view of the  spectacle, is of a terrible and exceeding great prospect of fire, there  are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, period..  For a gulf and deep and large is fixed between them; and so much that a just man that have compassion upon them, cannot be admitted, nor  can one that is unjust, if he were, pass over it. 5. This is the discourse concerning Hades, wherein the souls of all men  are confined until a proper season, which God hath determined, when  he will make a resurrection of all men from the dead, not procuring a  transmigration of souls from one body to another, but raising again  those very bodies, which you Greeks, saying to be dissolved, do not  believe (their resurrection:) but learn not to disbelieve it; for while  you believe that the soul is created, and yet is made immortal by God,  according to this doctrine of Plato, and this in time, be not incred- ulous, but believe that God is able, when he has raised to life that  body which was made as a compound of the same elements, to make it  in mortal; for it must be said of God that He is able to do some things,  and unable to others." P. 637, "JOSEPHUS Complete Works" THE CREDIBILITY OF JOSEPHUS' WRITINGS. Among the early writers, such as Tacitus and Pliny , (non-Christians),  was this Jewish first century historian,Flavius Josephus. They all  testified to the life and works of Jesus. Pliney taking part in  persecution of the Christians, was no Christian sympathizer, and  .  Josephus was a young Jewish priest.  He had been given command of  the Galilean military post during the Jewish-Roman of  67-70 A.D.  Josephus, who completely lacked military experience, wasted most of  his time in suppressing various opposing factions of Jews. He was soon  captured in 67 A.D.. Obviously, Josephus living only a few years from  the days of Jesus is ministry, would have a high credibility as to the life of Jesus. Just as obvious there would be critics saying the mentioning of Jesus, came from later  Christian insertions. Recently a Jewish professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem,  countered those critics statements with this observation: "it does not  mention any involvement of the Jewish leaders and Jesus in trial. A  good test of authenticity: any Christian apologist tempted to tamper with the text (Josephus's words) would almost surely have mentioned  the Jesus's role... His disciples... Reported that he had appeared to  them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have  recounted wonders." P. 55, time magazine, February 28, 1972.

MORE ABOUT Verse 43 Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise

Verse 43 Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise

              (Shmeron met emou esh en twi paradeiswi).                                                                                                                            However crude may have been the robber's Messianic ideas Jesus clears the path for him.

I'm sorry about repeating some of these debate points. I really never intended that. I had what seemed a sheet obscuring much of what I wrote.  ALSO I really intended to edit the blog.  Frank 

 Christ the Son of God promises the thief immediate and conscious fellowship after death with Christ in Paradise

"Paradise" is a Persian word and is used here involving the very bliss of heaven itself. This Persian word was used
 for an enclosed park or pleasure ground (so Xenophon). (A greek mercenary General in "Up Country") The word
 occurs in two other passages in the N.T. in both of which the reference is plainly to paradise. 

"in Paradise" 
WHAT DOES THE WORD "PARADISE" MEAN?

This word is used in a number of places.

Verse 43 Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise

              (Shmeron met emou esh en twi paradeiswi).                                                                                                                            However crude may have been the robber's Messianic ideas Jesus clears the path for him.

 So Christ the Son of God promises the thief immediate and conscious fellowship after death with Christ in Paradise

"in Paradise" 

WHAT DOES THE WORD "PARADISE" MEAN?

"Paradise" is a Persian word and is used here involving the very bliss of heaven itself. This Persian word was

 used for an enclosed park or pleasure ground (so Xenophon). (A greek mercenary General in "Up Country")

 The word occurs in two other passages in the N.T. in both of which the reference is plainly to paradise. 

This word is used in a number of places.
                  (2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 both use it.),

2 Corinthians 12:2-4; 2 I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I don`t know, or whether out of the body, I don`t know; God knows), such a one caught up into the third heaven. 3 I know such a man (whether in the body, or apart from the body, I don`t know; God knows), 4 how he was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
	The Lone Roo has left a new comment on our post  "WITNESS FROM THE CROSS NEXT TO JESUS":  The Lone Roo's questioning statement: "Frank, my question would be that  in light of John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not  yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them,  ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”, WHAT HAPPENED TO MARY? A.T.ROBINSON'S COMMENTARY:  Verse 16  With the greeting to Mary, A.T. Robinson's exegesis points out what  happened (Mariam). Aramaic form in Aleph B W, though Maria in 19:25. Clearly the old  familiar tone of Jesus was in the pronunciation of her name. Rabboni (Rabbounei) . Aramaic again for Didaskale (Teacher), "my Teacher." In N.T. only here and Mark  10:51 though practically the same as Rabbi. See 11:28 for "the Teacher" (Rabbi).  These two simple words tell the great fact that Christ is risen and Mary has seen  him. One says little in really great moments. (While I believe that we as believers in Christ should come to God's warm  embrace, as Romans 8:16-19 encourages us, "OUR ABBA FATHER," that God is still God.  Mary is  attempting to assume certain "clinging to" relationships no longer there.  John, for example, was the Apostle who would commonly lay his head on  Jesus' chest--notice the difference in Revelations 1:17. (SEE THE EXEGESIS OF JOHN 2:17) 17 Jesus said to her, "Don`t touch me, for I haven`t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God. `"  Verse 17 Touch me not (mh mou aptou). Present middle imperative in prohibition with genitive case,  meaning "cease clinging to me" rather than "Do not touch me." Jesus allowed the women to take hold of his feet (ekrathsan) and worship  (prosekunhsan) as we read in Matthew 28:9. The prohibition here reminds Mary that the previous personal fellowship by  sight, sound, and touch no longer exists and that the final state of glory was not yet begun.  Jesus checks Mary's impulsive eagerness. For I am not yet ascended (oupw gar  anabebhka).   (Remember John was known as the one always laying his head on Jesus' chest-- notice the difference in John's reaction in his later encounter with Jesus after Jesus had ascended)Rev. 1:12-17.   Perfect active indicative. Jesus is here at all only because he has not yet gone home. He had said (Matthew 16:7) that it was good for them that he  should go to the Father when the Holy Spirit will come through whom they will  have fellowship with the Father and Christ.  My God (qeou mou). Jesus had said  "My God" on the Cross (Mark 15:34). Note it also in Revelation 3:2. So Paul in  Romans 15:6, etc., has "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." " how could he be telling the thief that he would be in paradise when he didn't  ascend for 3 more days? " JESUS WAS RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD AFTER THREE DAYS  AND THREE NIGHTS IN HADES  THE ASCENTION WASN'T THREE DAYS-- JESUS WOULD ASCEND FROM EARTH TO HEAVEN AFTER 40 DAYS  to the right hand of GOD. Acts 1:3 I'll quote Peter more fully later but Peter answers that question: ACTS 2  27Because you will not leave my soul in Hades, Neither will you allow your  Holy One to see decay. oti ouk egkataleiyeiV thn yuchn mou eiV adhn oude dwseiV ton osion sou idein diafqoran oti ouk egkataleiyeiV thn yuchn mou eiV adhn oude dwseiV ton osion sou idein diafqoran "The SOUL" of Jesus ("my Holy One") was "in Hades"         Hades never means "grave", but it is a Greek  word meaning the same as the Hebrew "Sheol"   "PARADISE-ABRAHAM'S BOSUM"WAS PART OF HADES  The CRUCIFIED BODY of Jesus was in Joseph's tomb and  would  have suffered decay except for His resurrection. This same unascended crucified body  is what Mary encountered. YOUR QUESTION RAISES PROBLEMS ONLY BECAUSE OF YOUR  MISTAKEN BELIEF THAT JESUS HAS NO SOUL  OR THE THIEF HAS  NO SOUL. We've already shared that Jesus' soul suffered in the Isaiah 53 passage.  THE  SAME ORIGINAL WORD FOR SOUL IS USED IN GEN.2:7, ISA. 53:11-12,  IT WAS JESUS' SOUL THAT SUFFERED FROM GOD (Isa. 53:11-12)  AS A VICARIOSUS SACRIFICE IN  ISAIAH 53:10-11 "AS THE RESULT  OF ANGUISH OF HIS (JESUS CHRIST'S) SOUL,  HE (GOD THE FATHER) WILL SEE IT AND BE  SATISFIED...WILL JUSTIFY THE MANY." JESUS TEACHING ABOUT THE SOULS OF TWO MEN It's recorded in the Bible, Jesus taught this about an event involving  the souls of two men. LUKE 16:19-28 A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man`s table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores.  It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the  angels to Abraham`s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. HADES--ABRAHAM'S BOSOM--PARADISE (Eph. 4:8-12, Rev. 1:18, 2 Cor. 12:1-4) In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham  far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. Obviously BOTH WERE IN HADES and these experiences must  involve the  non-physical part (souls) of these two men He cried and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send  Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my  tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.` But Abraham said, `Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received  your good things, and Lazarus, in like manner, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. (These dead men's souls are awake, have feelings--emotions) Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.`                                                                                                                  (Jewish Historian, Josephus, has a book about Hades Check what a Jewish Josephus says about Shoel or Hades) He said, `I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my   father`s house;  for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment.` This would be good advise to those who refuse But Abraham said to him, `They have Moses and the prophets. Let  them listen to them.` 30 He said, `No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead,  they will repent.` 31 He said to him, `If they don`t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither  will they be  persuaded if one rises from the dead.`" Jewish Historian, Josephus, not a Christian, but a  contempory to the beginning of the Christian Church,  who was from a Jewish priest's family. He had been  a member of all three Jewish sects. Often had  rabbis came to him for advise. He was a general in  the first Jewish--Roman War.  He wrote a huge many --volumes work on Jewish history, and in one book,  "DISCOURSE TO THE GREEKS CONCERNING HADES"  pp. 637, he wrote:          "Now as to Hades, wherein the souls of the  righteous and the unrighteous are detained....the  just shall obtain incorruptable and never fading  kingdom. These are indeed confined in Hades, but  not in the same place wherein the unjust are  confined.... For a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; in as much that a  just man that hath compassion upon the wicked cannot be admitted,  nor can one that is unjust , if he were bold enough to  attempt it, passover it.... 5. This is the discourse concerning Hades wherein  the souls of all men confined until a proper season  which God hath  determined...." The souls of all men are confined until when? THAT'S TOO IS OBVIOUS! Incidently, because one believes in the immortal soul of man doesn't  DOES NOT mean one is a disciple of Plato.  David  speaks of his soul in sheol Psa. 16:10, which Peter renders: "His soul in HADES." I'll write on the Plato problem you keep worrying about. THIS QUESTION: " how could he(JESUS) be telling the thief that he  would be in paradise when he didn't ascend for 3 more days? "   This should be self-explanatory by this time. That's not hard to understand unless as you say the THIEF  HAS  NO SOUL.  WITH NO SOUL.  OBVIOUSLY with no soul there could be no David's soul left in  Hades so making David's and Peter's arguement false.   The thief would be in an even worst situation--he has been in  effect non-existent, for over 2000 years, and Jesus' word  "today" is meaningless or must be a teaser for any immediate paradise.  Did Jesus imply a warning to unbelievers when  He quoted the rich man saying:  I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment. He said, `No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead,  they will repent.` But Abraham said to him, `They have Moses and the prophets. Let  them listen to them. `

He said to him, `If they don`t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither  will they be  persuaded if one rises from the dead.`"  This is Jesus teaching about "Souls in Abraham's Bosum or hades" And Jesus  go immediately to Hades after dying on the with the repent thief, and as Lazarus  had immediately relief so would the thief "today" not some event still coming.  SO WHEN JESUS  DIED HE DIDN'T ASCEND --BUT HE DESCENDED. THIS IS WHERE THOSE THREE DAYS  ARE ACCOUNTED FOR-- THAT YOU WERE SO PUZZELED ABOUT-- Alright, WHAT ABOUT THOSE THREE DAYS?

WHERE DID JESUS GO FOR THOSE THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS?

THE THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS BETWEEN JESUS' DEATH AND JESUS RESURRECTION?

Jesus teaches about this three days and three night in a sign--He was prompted to give a sign in Acts 12:38-41.

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jonah was cognoscent-awake in the fish as Christ was in hades--"in the heart of the earth."

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will  The Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.   Jonah was cognoscent-awake in the fish as Christ was in hades--"in the heart  of the earth."    Maybe the business of the fish is confusing to some,  but if you'll read it--it plainly says "AS JONAH WAS SO JESUS WAS...." WHERE?  IN A FISH?  NO! "IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH!" THAT'S WHERE Sheol and Hades exist.  There's plenty of scripture to  prove that, and I'll do that in a later blog.  The word "AS" is a comparison word.  Jesus is not comparing the place,  but that as JONAH WAS ALIVE--AWAKE IN THE FISH--SEEING-- SENSING, SPEAKING, SO WOULD JESUS BE, ALIVE,  AWAKE  IN HADES--SEEING, SENSING NOW CHECK OUT MY POST ON PLATO, HADES.